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Talk:Thalmor (Skyrim)/Archive 1
"The White-Gold Concordat, effectively ending the war in Cyrodiil, gave the Thalmor legal authority to eradicate Talos worship, although many devout believers, including Ulfric Stormcloak and Elisif the Fair relented, either openly or subversively." In the above paragraph, "relented" should be changed to "resisted." "Relent" means to give in. 05:12, October 25, 2013 (UTC) i just want to be clear on something, the thalmor are made up of altmer and bosmer, correct? (Josephksp (talk) 00:36, November 24, 2011 (UTC)) The original Aldmeri Dominion was, I'm not sure about these guys who are only taking up the mantle of the Aldmeri Dominion.Gdubs (talk) 03:00, December 4, 2011 (UTC) Thalmor Hit Squads Yeah, I've had a goon squad attack me out in the middle of nowhere. I'm really not sure what I did to earn their ire; I haven't taken a side on the civil war. Tyrasis (talk) 11:17, December 4, 2011 (UTC) Same here. I'm a Wood Elf and I suddenly get jumped by 3 of them. One went down easy, the other was a melee user who wasn't too tough. But then there was the magic user who kept spamming Lightning Bolt. Tough joker there for a low level, wa hoping she would drop a spell tome for the spell she was spamming but sadly no :(. Still fun though.Idk000000 (talk) 21:00, December 10, 2011 (UTC) :Same just happened to me, but I was killed off by them. Even with turning to run away the two bodyguards were still able to keep up with me. The only thing that I can think of was that I started wearing an Amulet of Talos I found after killing the dragon at the western watch tower. Message 01:38, January 6, 2012 (UTC) Hypocrisy in Thalmor Belief System I've noticed a massive hypocrisy in the beliefs of the Thalmor, hear me out. They believe that Talos is not one of the Nine Divines and that the very idea of him being a God is wrong because he was a man. However they believe in the Eight Divines and worship them like many citizens of Tamriel. Have they failed to note that the reason Talos is a God is because Akatosh made it so? By undermining this, they are effectively denying a huge part of the belief system. A comparison might be that the Akatosh - Talos relationship is very similar to Christianity's God - Jesus, albeit that the two Divines in question aren't blood relatives. So by denying Talos his rightful place as the Ninth Divine, they are effectively saying that Akatosh is wrong and are denying a critical part of the history of The Divines. Pog 14:55, December 15, 2011 (UTC) You were right to compare it to Christianity. Worship of Talos would be like Christianity, whereas not worshiping Talos and sticking with the original Eight would be like Judahism. In that faith, Jesus is not regarded as the son of God; just a prophet, equally as worthy of veneration as other prophets. The Thalmor are Jews, basically. (Metaphorically) --— Radical D (bother \ 14:59, December 15, 2011 (UTC) No where in the mythology of Talos have I seen it written that Akatosh made him a god so I'd like to see a source on that because from what i've read most sources simply say after death he achieved apotheosis but don't explain how or by who's will. And a comparison between christianity/judaism and the 8/9 divines is assinine. There are absolutely no similarities between those 2 monotheistic religions and Tamriel's polytheistic religions. Talos wasn't a prophet he was simply revered, that doesn't make him christ-like because he had respect. Sorry to break it to you but christianity doesn't fit in every conversation about religion. If you want to make a comparison I'm prety sure Tiber Septim is based upon Julius Caesar. They were both made "gods" after death, on they conquered everything they set their eyes upon, the Septim empire is based directly on the roman empire, and they both were revered tremendously. I'm almost certain Tiber is based on Caesar. T Juggernaut (talk) 17:11, December 15, 2011 (UTC) @T Juggernaut; I saught only to make a comparison and the most mainline religion recognised by the English speaking world is Christianity. I don't want to get into a real-world religious debate on here either and I do know that Christianity and polytheism isn't a great comparison but I felt I needed to make one. Pog 07:00, December 20, 2011 (UTC) Me again, you're right in that I was wrong about Akatosh being the one that received Tiber Septim's ascension to godhood, but as evidenced by the events of the Oblivion Crisis, Akatosh (And assumedly, the other Divines) are willing to fight for, or through, him. My point stands; if Talos is recognised as a Divine by the rest of the Gods then it contravenes the belief system to claim that he isn't. Pog 07:04, December 20, 2011 (UTC) @Pog: Sorry if my edit came off as a bit condescending, I understand where your coming from with your comparison. Where I live christianity is shoved down your throat by everyone and when I saw what you typed i was like oh not another one, so again I apologize if I came on too strongly. I have always agreed with your point on Talos' divinity I just wanted to know where you got it from. You made a valid point with evidence from the Oblivion Crisis. All in all though I despise the Thalmor and the fact that my in-game character is a Redguard only adds fuel to that. T Juggernaut (talk) 22:25, December 20, 2011 (UTC) @Pog: You're comparison to Christianity is inaccurate. According to most doctrines, Christ was always God - he was not made into a god at any point by God the Father and was/is co-eternal with God the Father. There is the doctrine of Adoptionism that is exactly what you are describing, but it is considered heretical today. At least as far as I know, Talos was not considered to be always divine, but was made divine later - like the heroes of the hero cults of Greece (or like Julius Caesar, Caesar Augustus, and the genius of the Emperor(s)). 18:46, January 29, 2012 (UTC) Can we lay off the fact that I compared it to Christianity, is the theory sound? If so is it worth putting on the page? Pog 08:44, January 30, 2012 (UTC) So we're essentially saying that the Thalmor are Extermist Jews? Hahaha, I'm not going to get into a huge religious debate over trying to decide who the Thalmor resemble in the real world but that was just the first impression I got over reading the original post :P Dovahfeyn (talk) 20:36, April 14, 2012 (UTC) Wow tat makes sense so te stormcloaks are Teh Christan right sweet im killing my mom BrooklynGuido42 i think they resemble maos red party, look the thalmor removed the goverment and persacutes anyone who stands up top them.DeirdreKent101 (talk) 19:33, July 6, 2012 (UTC) Real reason for Talos worship ban Read MK's second forum post: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride 19:16, December 27, 2011 (UTC) Interesting stuff. However, since it doesn't appear in the game, its canon status is highly uncertain. Michael Kirkbride isn't even on Bethesda's official writing team any more (he worked on Morrowind and some stuff for Obilvion, but left after that). Still pretty cool, though. 11:43, August 23, 2012 (UTC) It's definitely speculative, but MK still consults with Bethesda and may be contracted to write certain things. He said in the forum that his writing would not appear in Skyrim, but in fact some of his lines appear in Heimskr's speech. In the article it could be cited as speculation. Everything fits with this as a motive for the Thalmor's actions, including Ancano's dialogue. In the boss fight with him, he shouts about unmaking the world. Addaia (talk) 14:44, August 23, 2012 (UTC) Sentence revision I want to discussion the revision of the final sentence under "Philosophy and traits". It currently reads, "Altmer by birth, the Thalmor wear long hooded robes and sport haughty attitudes. They are adept spell-casters." As it's currently written, it's pretty straight forward, the only problem I can think of is, "...haughty attitudes" which doesn't exactly match our policy on neutral point of view. Realistically, the article could suffice without its mention. In the lead, it's mentioned that Delphine calls the Thalmor "elven supremacists", which is sufficient enough I should think. It also takes the bias off the editors an onto in-game persons. Let me know you guys think. --— Deyvid Petteys (bother \ 18:28, February 17, 2012 (UTC) :Speaking with other editors on the IRC, we agreed that "haughty attitude" should be replaced with "viewed unfavorably". This verbiage was suggested because it seems to be common knowledge and therefore doesn't need a source. --— Deyvid Petteys (bother \ 03:58, February 22, 2012 (UTC) Ulfric's Role I have revised the information regarding Ulfric Stormcloak's release by the Thalmor. Prior to my editing, it was assumed he was a Thalmor agent.This isn't true. While it is true that through the dossier we learn that Ulfric Stormcloak was deliberately released, it is insufficient proof that he is a Thalmor agent as was previously stated in the Thalmor article. In case anyone needs to be clarified, what the dossier represents, is that the Thalmor seek to prolong the civil war if possible as it weakens both Skyrim and the Empire. The fact Ulfric is descibed as being uncooperative, should be proof enough that he is isn't an ally of the Thalmor. If someone wishes to debate this point, I'd be happy to oblige. Kraeten (talk) 18:03, February 19, 2012 (UTC)Kraeten :No need to debate it further, I should think. The source speaks for itself. I misconstrued the information when I read it. I'm glad you fixed it. --— Deyvid Petteys (bother \ 03:52, February 22, 2012 (UTC) :Agreed, this was one of the few points that kept me for the Stormcloaks as opposed to joining the Empire upon learning of Ulfric's connection to the Thalmor.Dovahfeyn (talk) 20:39, April 14, 2012 (UTC) :The article still states that Ulfric is a Thalmor sleeper agent. This is untrue and should be revised. In addition, the account of the Great War is wrong. Ulfric's father died during his time in prison after the Markarth Incident, not during his imprisonment during the Great War. Source is Ulfric's dialogue about how he became jarl. I'll append a video link. Addaia (talk) 06:17, July 29, 2012 (UTC) Murder i hate them i wish there was wood chipper i could kill them with Well, i hate them too. Both imperials and stormcloaks are ok, but Thalmor are the worst. They have no right to come into skyrim and critizice local's religion. 06:13, June 15, 2012 (UTC)Nobody Beth is obviously building up the fans' (and TES universes' several races) hatred for them. What for, you might ask..? Well..we have to wait for further games to see :) Next Skyrim DLC I hope to God there will be a DLC that involves destroying the Thalmor. They are prejudice and selfish sons of bitches that have no right to claim credit for events such as the Oblivion Crisis or the Void Nights. If you agree to this or not, please reply. Jackalex13 (talk) 11:00, June 17, 2012 (UTC)Jackalex13 I would love the idea of the next DLC being something concerning a Second Great War, though I would hope the player would be able to choose which side to join, Thalmor or Imperial. 06:50, July 24, 2012 (UTC)Gibson Well, joining the Legion would be a good idea cause when Thalmor is disbanded and the Aldmeri Dominion is in little crumbles of rocks, the Worship of Talos is back for good. No more rebellions and more speaking of hating the Thalmor. Besides that, the Nords should be more civil and polite towards all the races cause I found most Nord's extremely predudice and paranoid towards Elven kind, an opposite of the Thalmor. If you join the Thalmor, oh well, almost every race is gonna hate you and brand you as a Pariah of Skyrim. Jackalex13 (talk) 15:08, July 28, 2012 (UTC)Jackalex13 "Notable Members" Addition I believe http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Sanyon should be added as he is a member of the Thalmor whom is named. Additionally http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Captain_Valmir is also a named Thalmor. also Agent Lorcalin, Gissur, Shavari and J'Datharr Thalmor Membership The Aldmeri Dominion is technically Altmer and Bosmer, but the only Bosmer I've seen anywhere near the Thalmor are serving drinks at the Embassy. Are there any Bosmer in the game who are identified as being Thalmor? Rosenoire (talk) 22:55, August 27, 2012 (UTC) Markarth Incident The section on Hammerfell and the Markarth Incident mentions Skald the Elder as the Jarl of Markarth when in fact it's actually Igmund. Could someone with the necessary rights correct this? ChrisGJ777 (talk) 13:28, September 14, 2012 (UTC) Thalmor Rascism? Do the Thalmor hate just Nords? Do they hate humans(e.g. Nords, Imperials, Redguards)? Do they hate non-elves(e.g. Humans, Argonians, Khajiit)? Or do they hate impure/non elves(e.g. Humans, Beast Folk, Bretons, Orcs)? Ziebro (talk) 23:17, December 2, 2012 (UTC) They pretty much hate anyone that isn't "pure". So basicly anyone that isn't an Altmer, and even some Altmer for not being pure enough. Zelron Harbinger of the end times 00:17, December 3, 2012 (UTC) Thalmor = Inquisition Okay, so this may be abstract, but hear me out... The Aldmeri Dominion has parallels to the Catholic church (whether intentional or not). In the Middle Ages, the Catholic church created the Papal states to exercise control over the Catholic communities throughout Europe. Aldmeri Dominion is an Elven empire that controls their states in essencially the same manner. The Church convinced others they had a connection with God. Aldmeri Dominion controls other places by making them believe they are all-powerful (e.g. Telling Elswyr inhabitants that they made their sacred moons return with magic to convince the Khajiit to follow them). The Nords (who I know are supposed to otherwise be Scandinavian) and the Imperials (who are supposed to otherwise be Romans) worship Talos. In this instance only (only when referring to Nords and Imperials in relation to the Aldmeri Dominion) are like the Muslims. The Great War was a cause of a build-up of tension between the two nations and an eventual full confrontation/war. This is a parallel to the Crusades, where Catholics saw their duty (as was told to them by the church) to eradicate these "heretics" and "infidels". Now, the Aldmeri Dominion parallels to the papacy could be disproved, but then we get to the Thalmor. The Thalmor are sent to Skyrim to find and try heretics (Talos worshippers). The Inquisition in was the exact same thing. Also, with all the corruption that goes on within the Thalmor based on influencing their people via religion is the same way the Catholic church gained power. One more thing: I added this last because it is the least likely. The revealing of the wagon of Blades agent heads, the catalyst sparking the Great War after years of enmity and tension, could be a reference to the destruction of the major church in Jerusalem (i forgot the exact name). Every other civilization in Elder Scrolls has a people its based off of. Why not Thalmor? :The Catholic Church isn't and never was a race/people. The Thalmor are. A better comparison would be that the Thalmor are based on the Chinese, who regarded all other people as barbarians, or maybe the 19th century British (White Man's Burden and all that).DarthOrc (talk) 06:49, December 21, 2012 (UTC) :Are the Thalmor not a faction of altmer? There are certainly altmer in Skyrim who aren't members of the Thalmor. Numerous times in-game they are referred to as being the ruling political faction of the Aldmeri Dominion rather than a blanket term for the entire altmeri population. The Thalmor seem to pretty clearly be a faction and its culture rather than a race or nationality. I don't think that the differences between the Thalmor and the Catholic Church are as big in reality as they are in your head. If they were based on a nation or a race rather than a religious/political faction, then Bethesda certainly did a good job covering that up in the game. Factual correction There needs to be some severe editing on this page. Much of it has false information that needs to be corrected. Serious cleanup needed. Why is this page locked down? There's some nauseatingly terrible grammar, spelling, and word choice in there that need to be fixed. Just for starters, 'openly' and 'subversively' are not actually antonyms (most of that sentence doesn't make very much sense) and 'to apotheosise' is used totally and hilariously incorrectly (it's a transitive verb, or "not an action verb," if you're not familiar with the term 'transitive'). It's kind of unproductive and ass-backwards to keep a page in "protected" status for over a year on a supposedly user contribution-based wiki, if you ask me. But hey, I guess the quality (or lack thereof) of your wiki pages is ultimately your personal decision, so I'll leave it at this. This article is in need of a spoiler tag. Badly. 05:33, February 19, 2013 (UTC)That Other Guy Corrected spelling/grammar Minor Error: Where it says "... although many devout believers, including Ulfric Stormcloak and Elisif the Fair relented, either openly or subversively.", the word "relent" actually means the exact opposite of how it's being used here, making the sentence ambiguous if not outright misleading. Could someone with the permission to edit the page correct this? Thalmor/Nazi connection Anyone else noticed the similarities between the Nazis and the Thalmor? Both are a political faction within their respective race (Altmer/German) that rose to power violently and then proceeded to brutally suppress a religion and spout ideals of racial purity and named their empire after an ancient empire they believed to be their race's golden days, ie Second Aldmeri Dominion/Third Reich. The Thalmor even mirrored the Anschluss, whereby they merged their country with another relatively bloodlessly and through political means. The Thalmor mirror the Nazis too in that their name came to mean the Germans as a whole throughout their existence, not to mention having their own Gestapo in the form of the Justiciars. Interestingly the Empire of the current timeframe is modelled after the Weimar Republic in the post-Great War years, and the White-Gold Concordat is essentially the Treaty of Versailles. 20:50, August 28, 2013 (UTC)Frank Don't See This Everyday Okay, o get this; a long time ago I was playing Skyrim, and I was at the Embassy. I was in the barracks after cleaning out a few Thalmor soliders, then I went to the loot chest. You're not gonna believe what I found in it. That's right, an Amulet of Talos. o: 15:44, September 22, 2013 (UTC)Anonymous